Lebanon - Debate with "AngryBlogger"

Debate with "AngryBlogger"

Exchange at his now-vanished blog "The AngryBlogger".

He said:

No peace with Extremist on both sides

This impressively large website has a vast number of articles, pertaining to many crises which affect the world today, including the Isreal/Palestinian conflict.

Alas, the views expressed are one-sided and biased, and I can't abide subjective reporting like this. For example, in his sub-section on Lebanon, we are treated at the bottom of the page to such quotes as:

"It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth."
- Hezbollah, March 1992, taking responsibility for the suicide bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina.

And:

"If they" [the Jews] "all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them world wide."
- Hassan Nasrallah, current leader of Hezbollah, October 2002.

These are despicable utterances of course, and no one in their right mind would agree with them. To hate someone based on their religion, ethnicity or belief is contemptable.

However, the casual reader would presume that it is only Hezbollah coming out with this. Not so.

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

And:

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

And:

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994

Oddly enough, we don't find these equally obnoxious quotes on Humphrys' website.

I wonder why ?
2006-08-18 15:36:08 GMT

I said:

Fair question, Mr. Anonymous, so I shall reply.

You "wonder why" I don't include those 3 quotes.
The short answer is because two of them are fake, and the third is by a person of no importance.

Yaacov Perin's quote is real.
He was the rabbi who conducted the mass murderer Baruch Goldstein's funeral.
I assume he is a similar nutjob.
These people are so unpopular in Israel that their entire "Kach" movement was outlawed after Goldstein's massacre.
The Israeli government even outlawed and destroyed a shrine erected at Goldstein's grave:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
In short, the "Kach" people have almost no support in Israel.
As this discussion says:
http://reddit.com/info/b164/comments/cb1du
"The only place Rabbi Yacov Perin's name is to be found is in connection with this infamous quote".
He is not in any way an influential or important figure in Israel.
So in what way are his opinions of any importance?

Likewise some guy called "Chairman Heilbrun" in 1983 is of no importance, not least because he did not exist.
Do you even know his first name? Go look for it and you will discover that he did not exist:
CAMERA
If you don't believe CAMERA, then tell me his first name and a bit of biography.

The Rafael Eitan quote in 1983 is more interesting. At least someone might have heard of him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Eitan
The problem is the quote is also imaginary:
CAMERA
If you don't believe CAMERA, then show me the full article (you claim it is the "New York Times 14 April 1983") to demonstrate that the quote actually exists.

For a full round-up of bogus anti-Israel quotes see:
Exposing False Zionist Quotes (Quote Busters)
Exposing False Zionist Quotes II (Quote Busters II)

Even Rafael Eitan is not a very important figure.
He is, for example, dead, and his party, Tzomet, after repeatedly winning no seats, does not exist any more.

In contrast, my quote is from Hassan Nasrallah, who is the current leader of Hezbollah.
The other quote is an official Hezbollah statement.
What you need to do is find similar statements from people such as Olmert, Shamir, Peres, Rabin, Barak, Netanyahu, Sharon, or, say, Natan Sharansky, or find an official Israeli government statement along these lines.
Otherwise, your attempt at simplistic moral equivalence fails, and you are forced to compare the entire organisation of Hezbollah and its leader on one side, with a couple of unimportant people no one has heard of on the other side.

Mark Humphrys

2006-08-22 13:33:03 GMT

He said:

Some more quotes:

David Ben-Gurion:
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

and

"What is necessary is cruel and strong reactions. We need precision in time, place, and casualties. If we know the family, we must strike mercilessly, women and children included. Otherwise, the reaction is inefficient. At the place of action, there is no need to distinguish between guilty and innocent." January 1, 1948 diary entry"

Dov Weissglass
"It (Gaza disengagement) supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians"

Benjamin Netanyahu
"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

Like I said, with extremists on both sides, there can be no peace.
--Angryblogger
2006-08-22 16:30:22 GMT

I said:

Crumbs, you're not embarrassed at all that two of your three original quotes were fakes? Do you not care that you were exposed as so gullible?

Given this, I suspect your new quotes are dodgy too. Give me more supporting info on the Ben-Gurion and Netanyahu quotes.

What's wrong with the Weissglass quote exactly?

--Mark Humphrys

2006-08-22 16:57:43 GMT

Updates

I have had some updates on the above quotes since.

The first David Ben-Gurion quote is fake.
I assume the Benjamin Netanyahu quote after the Tiananmen massacre is fake.
But here's a real quote by Yasser Arafat on the Tiananmen massacre, 1989. After the killing of the pro-democracy demonstrators, Arafat said to Jiang Zemin: "On behalf of the Arab Palestinian people, their leadership and myself, I express the warmest, most sincere congratulations to you, dear comrade, on your appointment to General Secretary of the Communist Party of China, and take this opportunity to express extreme gratification that you were able to restore normal order after the recent incidents in People's China. I wish you, close friends, more progress in your endeavour to achieve the hopes, goals, aspirations, stability and security of our friends, the Chinese people."

The anti-Israel Irish President Michael D. Higgins at an anti-Israel demo, Galway, May 2007.
He stands beside the above fake David Ben-Gurion quote.
See large size.

Irish Islamic extremist EireMuslim, February 24, 2012, also promotes fake quotes about Israel.
He claims that Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu wished death to all Arabs on Facebook. No evidence is presented except the word of some anti-Israel lunatic in Kuwait. No screenshots. Nothing.

Of course it is just lies. 5 minutes Googling would show EireMuslim that, among thousands of other comments, some random passers-by (maybe Israelis, maybe not) dumped hateful comments on Netanyahu's Facebook page. Anyone can write on this page, which is here. So the whole story is nonsense.
It is notable that, in complaining about civility in discourse, EireMuslim refers to the Israeli prime minister as a "Jewish scumbag"!
In the comments on EireMuslim's site, a Muslim extremist says he wants to kill all the Jews. And then complains that Irish people don't like him!
As for the other alleged comment by Netanyahu, the original 2001 quote is here: "Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, ''It's very good.'' Then he edited himself: ''Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.'' He predicted that the attack would ''strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we've experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.''"
Seems reasonable. It took 9/11 to make me see that Israel's fight against the jihad is our fight too.
EireMuslim seems to imply that he is opposed to 9/11. Will he condemn the Muslim jihadists that carried it out? Will he condemn Bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Tell me here if he ever does.